I left Christianity for similar reasons and think original sin is false, and partly powered by a fear of eternal damnation that is not something a worthwhile God would ever commit to for a being. Ufology research and over a decade of meditation around causing mystical experiences (https://classpunk.substack.com/p/on-meditation-and-mystical-experiences) has caused me to go from agnosticism to heavily leaning towards belief that everyone who is conscious is an immortal soul that came from God-- but unlike popular theist notions, in my opinion, I see God as at least being an infinitely loving primordial force, that equally embodies the masculine and feminine rather than favoring the masculine-- whether or not God is somehow able to be a fully conscious being in some way-- and also, I see God as being the sum-total of everything going along with Spinoza's view.
But whether or not I'm wrong on those points, and regardless of someone's beliefs on metaphysics or lack thereof, to feel loved and at peace, to not buy into any form of self-hatred inclusive of original sin, to hope the same for others, and to deepen the understanding of the connection between this and virtuousness or moral excellence, is something I think creates more meaning in life and is thus worth consistently pursuing.
Interesting that “fruits” are mentioned as much that is putrid has been borne in the past several years. And who bore it? Children of the devil. They may claim to follow Christ but their sins out them. I am deeply saddened to read this post, knowing there is only one way or the other. There is no safe, mushy middle in which to rest in the battle of all battles. Your soul is won or lost, and you get to choose. Until a man has a true interaction with the Creator of the universe, he will seek comfort in all the wrong places. The mind and the intellect is no place to hide, as brilliant as you are. You were hurt? If the church caused you to lose faith in God, then your faith was in people. I have seen miracles, prayers answered, and supernatural healing. There is no higher excitement or reward than in Christ and I could wish for you nothing better than to find it. You do such excellent work.
Interesting. Looks like woke-ism (or whatever they call it now) is repeating the exact same problem as the religions that it claims to dislike, only they call it "privilege" instead of "original sin." And they call it "cancel culture" instead of "excommunication". And so on. And unlike Christianity, they don't even *pretend* to believe in forgiveness! UGH!
Yes in Judea-Christian mindset also known for ontological insecurity, eternal fear because of an external God that is eager for punishment and revenge, in Eastern it’s metaphysical deep sleep (sheep), sleepwalking…..
It's a shame Christianity traumatises and disllusions so many people into atheism due to it's flawed concepts. God does not expect perfection from us, it would be non sensical to believe this, if one believes in God then part of that is to understand that only God is perfect and we're created imperfect in order to struggle and apply ourselves in bettering ourselves; that's the whole point of life. God does not expect perfection.
We are not born in sin, rejecting God because Christianity doesn't make sense doesn't make sense, there are other religions that have completely different (coherent and sensible) theologies.
Ultimately, subjective morality is the reason we're in this mess.
How about you just live and let live? If some believe in Christ and the story of the Bible but you don’t, your choice. You’ve heard the Gospel, apparently, and you reject it. If I think it’s a beautiful story of a loving, holy God who built a beautiful world, asked His children to obey ONE
little rule (which they did not), and then spent generations and centuries spinning a love story to reconcile them to Himself, leave me in my delusion. I live with gratitude, hope, and peace, even when the world is in chaos. Why deny me that? I’m sorry if you’ve met imperfect Christians, of which I am one, we aren’t Jesus, we just know Him and follow Him to the best of our abilities. I respect you, but won’t malign and ridicule, and attempt to tear down what you believe. Please grant me the same respect.
Praying for you, as I deeply appreciate your posts on the 🥕 and what we all experienced from 2020 forward. The works of ANE scholar Dr. Michael S. Heiser (RIP, Feb. 2023) have been helpful to me.
Yes, religion comes in many flavors. I only just believe in the Golden Rule, "do unto others..." which is contrary to the sin and damnation rhetoric that those who preach are most guilty of.
I am amazed, however, by the miracle of all living things on our planet and sometimes attribute this perfection to a "creator" but also accept that evolution is a fact.
As always, your posts are thought-provoking, this one was especially so.
“Burdening a hapless creature with the sole responsibility to bring only perfection into the presence of God, …”
In fact, that’s not what God does. He gave us his son who paid the price for us, so that if we believe, he sees in us the righteousness of Jesus. ”For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.“ Romans 5:19
There is ample empirical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. And if he rose from the dead, he is who he said he was. And if he is who he said he was, the whole Hebrew and Christian Bible is entirely consistent. Jesus is pictured throughout the Hebrew Bible, by multiple authors writing hundreds of years before he appeared on earth.
I was raised an atheist by atheist. This is the kind of thing I would’ve written in my formidable years to make myself worthy of their praise. Funny thing is, these same atheist think Lord Gore’s carbon credit system is earth justice.
You sound just like the 17 year old after his first semester at University. You seem so angry, but why? Common you're a smart guy, tell us how you would have done it.
I left Christianity for similar reasons and think original sin is false, and partly powered by a fear of eternal damnation that is not something a worthwhile God would ever commit to for a being. Ufology research and over a decade of meditation around causing mystical experiences (https://classpunk.substack.com/p/on-meditation-and-mystical-experiences) has caused me to go from agnosticism to heavily leaning towards belief that everyone who is conscious is an immortal soul that came from God-- but unlike popular theist notions, in my opinion, I see God as at least being an infinitely loving primordial force, that equally embodies the masculine and feminine rather than favoring the masculine-- whether or not God is somehow able to be a fully conscious being in some way-- and also, I see God as being the sum-total of everything going along with Spinoza's view.
But whether or not I'm wrong on those points, and regardless of someone's beliefs on metaphysics or lack thereof, to feel loved and at peace, to not buy into any form of self-hatred inclusive of original sin, to hope the same for others, and to deepen the understanding of the connection between this and virtuousness or moral excellence, is something I think creates more meaning in life and is thus worth consistently pursuing.
Interesting that “fruits” are mentioned as much that is putrid has been borne in the past several years. And who bore it? Children of the devil. They may claim to follow Christ but their sins out them. I am deeply saddened to read this post, knowing there is only one way or the other. There is no safe, mushy middle in which to rest in the battle of all battles. Your soul is won or lost, and you get to choose. Until a man has a true interaction with the Creator of the universe, he will seek comfort in all the wrong places. The mind and the intellect is no place to hide, as brilliant as you are. You were hurt? If the church caused you to lose faith in God, then your faith was in people. I have seen miracles, prayers answered, and supernatural healing. There is no higher excitement or reward than in Christ and I could wish for you nothing better than to find it. You do such excellent work.
https://substack.com/profile/100124894-steven-berger/note/c-51375173
Interesting. Looks like woke-ism (or whatever they call it now) is repeating the exact same problem as the religions that it claims to dislike, only they call it "privilege" instead of "original sin." And they call it "cancel culture" instead of "excommunication". And so on. And unlike Christianity, they don't even *pretend* to believe in forgiveness! UGH!
Yes in Judea-Christian mindset also known for ontological insecurity, eternal fear because of an external God that is eager for punishment and revenge, in Eastern it’s metaphysical deep sleep (sheep), sleepwalking…..
It's a shame Christianity traumatises and disllusions so many people into atheism due to it's flawed concepts. God does not expect perfection from us, it would be non sensical to believe this, if one believes in God then part of that is to understand that only God is perfect and we're created imperfect in order to struggle and apply ourselves in bettering ourselves; that's the whole point of life. God does not expect perfection.
We are not born in sin, rejecting God because Christianity doesn't make sense doesn't make sense, there are other religions that have completely different (coherent and sensible) theologies.
Ultimately, subjective morality is the reason we're in this mess.
Original Sin is a Catholic concept adopted by Protestants.
It doesn’t exist in the Orthodox Church.
https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/4814/how-do-the-catholic-and-orthodox-views-of-original-sin-differ
You'd like David Bentley Hart. Original sin and eternal perdition are incorrect readings of the Bible, and many in the Orthodox Church see this.
How about you just live and let live? If some believe in Christ and the story of the Bible but you don’t, your choice. You’ve heard the Gospel, apparently, and you reject it. If I think it’s a beautiful story of a loving, holy God who built a beautiful world, asked His children to obey ONE
little rule (which they did not), and then spent generations and centuries spinning a love story to reconcile them to Himself, leave me in my delusion. I live with gratitude, hope, and peace, even when the world is in chaos. Why deny me that? I’m sorry if you’ve met imperfect Christians, of which I am one, we aren’t Jesus, we just know Him and follow Him to the best of our abilities. I respect you, but won’t malign and ridicule, and attempt to tear down what you believe. Please grant me the same respect.
I am willing to go a long way debating and dialoging you on this topic. - In private. Like an Ethical Skeptic.
Praying for you, as I deeply appreciate your posts on the 🥕 and what we all experienced from 2020 forward. The works of ANE scholar Dr. Michael S. Heiser (RIP, Feb. 2023) have been helpful to me.
Yes, religion comes in many flavors. I only just believe in the Golden Rule, "do unto others..." which is contrary to the sin and damnation rhetoric that those who preach are most guilty of.
I am amazed, however, by the miracle of all living things on our planet and sometimes attribute this perfection to a "creator" but also accept that evolution is a fact.
As always, your posts are thought-provoking, this one was especially so.
“Burdening a hapless creature with the sole responsibility to bring only perfection into the presence of God, …”
In fact, that’s not what God does. He gave us his son who paid the price for us, so that if we believe, he sees in us the righteousness of Jesus. ”For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.“ Romans 5:19
There is ample empirical evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. And if he rose from the dead, he is who he said he was. And if he is who he said he was, the whole Hebrew and Christian Bible is entirely consistent. Jesus is pictured throughout the Hebrew Bible, by multiple authors writing hundreds of years before he appeared on earth.
I was raised an atheist by atheist. This is the kind of thing I would’ve written in my formidable years to make myself worthy of their praise. Funny thing is, these same atheist think Lord Gore’s carbon credit system is earth justice.
Perhaps the Elohim are behind both mind control systems - Abrahamic religions and race-shaming propaganda.
You sound just like the 17 year old after his first semester at University. You seem so angry, but why? Common you're a smart guy, tell us how you would have done it.